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Suspended Under Fourteen


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#1 Jolanda

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Posted 18 December 2005 - 02:53 PM

Hi everyone,

The post about Fern being suspended and the quit angry reactions to that have upset me. I am twentynine years old, so I am in place here, but I am wondering.. is there a place the kids among us CAN go to? If I would have found a site like this to help me when I was 13 it would probably have kept me from a lot of bad things.. where do the kids go? They have the right to be heard too, but by who?? I hate freaking laws, they always make things impossible and yet we cannot live without! This so much freaks me out, I don't even understand myself why I am so mad right now, but I really hate the idea of screaming at each other here and being glad someone is leaving, unless they did something really wrong. I might be overreacting, I am sorry, I am already very tensed today and probably shouldn't even start this as the topic is closed, but I hurt because the children.. where do they go? Nobody ever listened to me when I was a kid and I am afraid Fern will be totally lost, isn't there a place we can lead them to for help? How can you get permission by your parents or guardians when you are an incest abuse victim for instance? I wouldn't like my parents to know I was here if I was abused by any of them or the family. This freaks me out! Anyone suggestions?Where do I loose the point?

Jolanda

#2 Sookie

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Posted 18 December 2005 - 03:15 PM

I totally agree, this is a hard issue & i to am worried for fern & others like her... They to need some where, i'm not saying rules should change but maybe a little safe place for them is made?!? I understand that issues can arise with underage kids using these boards & with that said i am willing to help anyway i can-i will start with some research.


hug.gif & wub.gif


Sooks

#3 Vera

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Posted 18 December 2005 - 03:43 PM

Jolanda,

Please know that we are concerned about fern or any other young child who has been or is abused too. But we are not trained professionals, nor law enforcements. You ask where do the children go? I pray that abused children have options other than After Silence, better options.

Where do I direct young children when they contact me through my website? If they live in the US, I direct them to RAINN, where trained professionals are there 24 hours at day, 7 days a week to help them, listen and support them. If they live in other countries, I do my best to find what resources are available to them.

QUOTE
How can you get permission by your parents or guardians when you are an incest abuse victim for instance?


You are right, they can't get parental permission if they are still in an abusive house. If we know of any underage girl or boy who is abused, we always contact someone, either law enforcements or Cyberangels.com. We have done this several times in the past. Victims of incest, who are currently abused need and deserve something more than After Silence. They need to be saved, they need trained professionals, and they need RAINN or similar resources.

#4 Soloko

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Posted 18 December 2005 - 03:52 PM

I understand eveyones concerns for Fern and others like her but..this is just a forum. I dont mean that rudely at all but it is a meeting place not a cure not therapy.
I would hope that Fern would be able to go to a school counsellor or someone that could help her professionally. I suppose we all use this place as a crutch sometimes but really it is a discussion board and nothing else. The danger uis when a 13 year old talks about abuse and alot of adults cant do anything as we dont have addresses/contact numbers.

Its far too dangerous to bend the rules it could mean losing this site for EVERYONE.
I really really hope that Fern is able to get help. But I do completely understand and respect the rules. The internet is such an amazing place but it cant suffice for real life and real help.

Love to everyone,
Soph

#5 Vera

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Posted 18 December 2005 - 03:55 PM

QUOTE(Soloko @ Dec 18 2005, 03:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
this is just a forum. I dont mean that rudely at all but it is a meeting place not a cure not therapy.
I would hope that Fern would be able to go to a school counsellor or someone that could help her professionally.


Thanks, this is exactly what I was trying to say.

#6 Kelly

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Posted 18 December 2005 - 03:56 PM

I know this has upset quite a few people, however, what was done was not done lightly and without cause. Unfortunately, this is the way it has to be for the protection of After Silence.

QUOTE
I really hate the idea of screaming at each other here and being glad someone is leaving, unless they did something really wrong.


Comments like this (i.e. being glad someone is leaving) are not the general feeling of this place. When an issue is brought to our attention, we try to find a resolution to each issue in a way that keeps the members of this board safe as well as keeping in mind the rules and regulations which must be in place for this board to continue to provide support to survivors. We are all survivors here and it also affects us when we need to make decisions such as these.

QUOTE
but I hurt because the children.. where do they go? Nobody ever listened to me when I was a kid and I am afraid Fern will be totally lost, isn't there a place we can lead them to for help? How can you get permission by your parents or guardians when you are an incest abuse victim for instance? I wouldn't like my parents to know I was here if I was abused by any of them or the family.


I don't think you are overreacting, you are just sharing your concern for a child. I know your concern goes past Fern and her well-being, but she has been told that she may return to AS once she has reached age 14 per the agreement in the Terms of Service. I think your question about finding a place for the children to go is a good one. I also understand your wanting to help a child (or anyone) to not hurt like you have been. I, too, was one of those children who was being abused by people within my home and I had nowhere to go either. At the time, there was no internet access for me as it was prior to the birth of the the world wide web as we know it now. Within the posting guidelines here at AS, there is a link to RAINN, which I believe can be contacted by anyone of any age and they can be directed as to where to find appropriate help. I do not know if there is an internet site to help those that are underage, and if there is, that is great. Thanks, Sookie, for doing some research on this. hug.gif

Hugs,
Kelly

#7 Jolanda

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Posted 18 December 2005 - 05:14 PM

I know these rules must be followed and I understand this is no therapy, I am just concerned about the children. It is good to hear there is a place you can send them to, Vera, that helps me lot in feeling better actually. I panicked a little, as we all know how lonely it is when you are a kid. Thanks for the replies so far.! And Sookie thanks for checking some things!

jolanda hug.gif

#8 Sookie

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Posted 18 December 2005 - 06:02 PM

Ok, i found two but i'm sure there are more out there if you try different word searches. These are them......
http://www.eyecatche...rvivors/forums/ <------ This one has a teen space.

http:///www.angelsinthenight.org/


I hope this helps & i have pmed these to Vera to check out more.


hug.gif & wub.gif
Sooks xox

#9 Vera

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Posted 18 December 2005 - 06:31 PM

Sookie,

your links are not working.



This is what I have found. It is a huge organization called Teen.org

However, even teen.org does not allow children under 13 to register. You can read why here:

http://groups.teenhe...rg/register.php

The law they refer to is called "COPPA Law - Children's Online Privacy Protection Act" which is the same law we have to comply with.

About COPPA:

Who Must Comply

If you operate a commercial Web site or an online service directed to children under 13 that collects personal information from children or if you operate a general audience Web site and have actual knowledge that you are collecting personal information from children, you must comply with the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act.

Personal Information

The Children's Online Privacy Protection Act and Rule apply to individually identifiable information about a child that is collected online, such as full name, home address, email address, telephone number or any other information that would allow someone to identify or contact the child. The Act and Rule also cover other types of information -- for example, hobbies, interests and information collected through cookies or other types of tracking mechanisms -- when they are tied to individually identifiable information.

Verifiable Parental Consent

Before collecting, using or disclosing personal information from a child, an operator must obtain verifiable parental consent from the child's parent. This means an operator must make reasonable efforts (taking into consideration available technology) to ensure that before personal information is collected from a child, a parent of the child receives notice of the operator's information practices and consents to those practices.

Until April 2002, the FTC will use a sliding scale approach to parental consent in which the required method of consent will vary based on how the operator uses the child's personal information. That is, if the operator uses the information for internal purposes, a less rigorous method of consent is required. If the operator discloses the information to others, the situation presents greater dangers to children, and a more reliable method of consent is required. The sliding scale approach will sunset in April 2002 subject to a Commission review planned for October 2001.

Enforcement

The Commission may bring enforcement actions and impose civil penalties for violations of the Rule in the same manner as for other Rules under the FTC Act.


More info here: http://www.ftc.gov/b...spubs/coppa.htm

#10 teazle

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Posted 18 December 2005 - 07:53 PM

QUOTE(Sookie @ Dec 18 2005, 11:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ok, i found two but i'm sure there are more out there if you try different word searches. These are them......
http://www.eyecatche...rvivors/forums/ <------ This one has a teen space.


i know for a fact that although this one has a teen forum, it doesn't accept under 16's, so isn't really any more help. i think you'll be hard pressed to find somewhere who will accept under 14's, because of the strict laws involved. and the ironic fact is, these laws are set up to try and protect young children from online predators/abusers/paedophiles. *sigh*

#11 Saz

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 01:07 AM

This is one site:

http://www.there4me.com

"It has been developed by the NSPCC (National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children) especially for anyone aged 12 - 16 in the UK who is having difficulties. There are lots of problems that are hard to talk about with family or carers, friends or teachers."


There is also a message board there but I'm not a member so I don't know how good it is. You can speak to an NSPCC adviser on that site in a one to one chat as well.


Hope this helps some people.

Saz x

#12 Guest_-Jennifer-_*

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 01:42 AM

I am tempted to say a few things here, but rather then doing that I want to just point something out.


When you first register for this board you are given the guidelines and rules. One of the rules is that you must be at least 14 years old and if you are under 18 years old then you must have parental consent. These are the rules...if not for the safety of our community...or for the safety of this child....then for the sake of ITS THE FRIGGIN LAW......and if somebody was to report this then this beautiful community could be shut down.


I am a tad upset, and this isn't based soley on Jolanda's thread, rather the other was closed....but I believe this goes hand and hand.......I feel our Administrators are getting a bum rap here. They work their butts off, and take time out of their day to day lives to make sure AS is a safe and warm/welcoming environment.

Fern had to consent to the TOS....so she essentially lied about her age to get approval for AS membership...this is against the rules. She has been told like the rest of us here by the Admins that she is welcomed back at 14 with parental consult....if she does not come back it is her loss because we are a wonderful community.

It upsets me that people are not supporting our TOS, our Admins. This is a child....and she does need help yes but there are laws that come into effect, and I frankly find it upsetting that nobody here realizes that she had to lie to get membership here.

Lastly I want to ask that this thread be closed. I do think it would be a good idea to set up a few links in the TOS/registration stage redirecting teens under the age of 14...that way they may find some help....BUT other then that I do not feel this thread needs to be carried on past this.


I think our admins are wonderful and I applaud them for all of their hard work to abide by the rules and TOS and laws of this wonderful community.

#13 violets8

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Posted 20 December 2005 - 01:45 AM

I have to say that children do need a safe place to turn however there are so many adult topics discussed here that it feels almost abusive to expose children to these things and to bog them down with even more adult issues than they are already facing. To be quite honest it freaks me out that there are people here under the age of 16 and even 18 that we adult survivors expose to all of our stuff. I am desperately want to teach highschool and I just finished interning with 9th-11th grade and they are still kids no matter what they have experienced. Now that I have stated my opinion the fact is when I joined this forum I knew it was intergenerational so by joining and posting my stuff I know that I am exposing children to my issues but being part of this community is so important to me and I have to say that I filter myself quite a bit because I wonder never want to expose a child to some of the adult things I am working on. Ever since I had a bad experience in the chatroom with someone that was underage shouldering the burden of a "suicidal" member in the middle of the night I have come to see that we must provide hope, courage, and a shoulder without exposing child members to other things that as children they shouldn't have to worry about. It really makes me sad to think about the 14 year old that felt responsible for keeping a 19 year old alive. She never should have been put in that position. Tat situation was resolved but I will never ever forget it and it helped mold my views of AS as a safe haven for a community of intergenerational survivors............Michelle