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Sexist Remarks


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littlegirllost,

there have previously been posts saying something like "I hate arabs, they're all the same". There have also been posts saying that about males. Neither statement is true.

I *do* want everyone to get along, that's why I started the thread for people to not paint all members of a certain physical group with one brush.

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First, I just wanted to say I'm not upset or mad or anything of the sorts, but if I come across that way, I'm sorry...not my intent.

With that said...

I think the men who come to this site are awesome for caring so much for their survivor friends, lovers, sisters, friends, mothers, wives, and daughters.

...

I think, especially in the vent section, that there needs to be some leeway and understanding when a person who has been raped expresses her rage and pain and fears regarding their rapists...

Sounds to me like you're saying the men who come to this site are SOLELY "secondary survivors." That is, they are on here because the women in their lives were assaulted/hurt.

What about the male SURVIVORS, like myself? Have we not been assaulted? (I could keep going on and on about this, but I realized it would just become a rant)

My therapist looks in many ways like my rapist. Every time I go to therapy, I have to mentally point out to myself things that are different about the man who raped me and this therapist. However, I will be changing therapists in the next week, because I personally will never be able to open up to him the way I need to to proceed in therapy because his appearance alone is a trigger for me.

I'm sorry your therapist looks like your r*pist, but I'm glad you're getting a new T. I was in that same boat a few years ago and I don't know how you've been able to make it through a single session. Just tell them that it's too triggering for that T to be YOUR T...that he looks too much like your attacker. If they're good or even decent Ts, they'll totally understand and help you find another T.

Edited by Po
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I must say that I hate any type of predujice, it really annoys me when people paint everyone with the same brush..

Possum I am glad you started this thread because it needed to be said, and I think that we are all hear for the same reason... and should all be treated with the same degree of respect! Thank you :flowers:

Edited by fightergirl
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*polishes her halo*

Just kidding!

I agree Po. People often hear "someone was raped" and their immediate reaction is along the lines of "is she ok? did she report it?"

Why she??

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*polishes her halo*

Just kidding!

I agree Po. People often hear "someone was raped" and their immediate reaction is along the lines of "is she ok? did she report it?"

Why she??

First, HIYA POSSUM!!! :wave:

Second, people automatically assume that the victim/survivor of a s*xual assault (including r*pe) is a woman because of the ratio of female victims/survivors to male victims/survivors. Yes, more women get assaulted than men, but that's not to say men don't get assaulted as well.

I could keep going on and on in regards to this, but I think it'd only do one (or both) of two things: It'd get me upset, and I'd say/do something that would upset others.

Everyone, please know that us men can be assaulted as well, and not all men are bad. And Possum, thanks again for bringing this topic up.

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HI POO!

I *never* assume gender based on someone being R'ed. And I didn't before I knew any guys who had been (to my knowledge).

People assume men can't get breast cancer, or face domestic violence too. I know most people who have had all of these things are female, but it doesn't mean millions aren't men!

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I agree with Po. It's just a numbers thing. Most people assume a survivor is female because the numbers suggest they are more likely to be. This sort of thing happens in all walks of life.

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It is a numbers thing Callum & po I agree, but that does not make it ok! Just like it would not be ok to say something bad about Irish people just because we are out numbered!!

Very true, but not really sure how we can get that to change. If it's not something that has effected you, either directly or as a secondary, then it's not something that people really pay much attention to. Obviously we're all here because it has so we're more inclined to think twice about saying things or making assumptions, but most people wont do that. I think the thing is to try and find a way to make most people think twice, just not sure how to do it!

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Well I think this is a great start! Hopefully this will make most people think twice! other than that the only thing we can do is contact a mod when someone does say something, or just remind them that there are male survivors! and just try keep awareness up that there are male survivors so it hopefully people will keep that in mind while posting!!

Anyone else have any idea's???

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I just remembered something (scary, isn't it?) this morning in regards to male survivors.

I once, not too long ago, was an advocate at the local RCC. During one of our training sessions, we had a Prosecutor from the DAs office as a "guest speaker." At the end of his time, there was a little Q&A session. Being the only other male in the room of 20 ppl, I asked him how many men seek legal justice through the courts (in other words, how many male survivors report what happened to them).

His answer pissed me off SO bad, I STILL don't know how I didn't get physical with him (and I'm one of those people who will hardly ever get physical). He said, "Oh, men can't be r*ped." Yes, he...a male prosecutor from the DAs office WITH MORE THAN A DECADE IN THE SAME DAs OFFICE...said that. :hammer:

Let's just say, he ate his words right away.

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:hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

That is CRAZY!!!! can't believe that!!!

But I am wondering if he was saying that in the eye's of the law they can't??? because in Ireland technically in the eye's of the law it is not seen as rape only sexual assault!!! I got very upset when I found that out!

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But I am wondering if he was saying that in the eye's of the law they can't??? because in Ireland technically in the eye's of the law it is not seen as rape only sexual assault!!! I got very upset when I found that out!

In Ireland, it's just SA? Not r*pe? Now THAT is a load of...well, maybe I shouldn't say, but you know what I mean.

Here in California, it is r*pe. And even when I got him to realize men can be r*ped, he said something along the lines of "Well, I guess gay men can be r*ped." Ya, I don't know if this guy was intentionally trying to piss me off, or if he was just stupid. Don't get me wrong, gay men can be assaulted as well, but how he said it, he made it sound like the only type of men that got assaulted were gay men. :hammer:

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Oh don't get me wrong I wasn't sticking up for him, I thought that might be the reason obviously not! I can't believe someone in that position could be so nieve and ... I'll stop there!!!

Yeah some of the laws in Ireland are a bit messed up!

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Trigger warning

Apparently my case was fairly important in getting it changed in Scotland. I was attacked in 2005 and it went to court in 2006. It was officially called sodomy then and tried as a form of indecent assault but all the police and procurator fiscal that I dealt with were up in arms and complained lots about it. A year later there were significant changes in the law in Scotland, which gave men the same recognition as women, along with including sending unwanted sexually explicit texts and e-mails as being a form of sexual assault and it is now the case that the woman (or man) takes drug and alcohol tests when it is reported in a bid to establish whether or not the woman (or man) was deemed to be in a fit state to give consent. Not great, but a lot better than it was.

Also, when I reported, the police didn't go as far as to say it never happened, but one of them did say he'd been in the police for 20 years and has never had to deal with a male victim that wasn't under the age of 12 before (I was 19 at the time). Everyone in the police was incredibly supportive to be fair.

Edited by callum
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  • 5 months later...
I'm sorry but I just don't see people here doing that to one another. Did I just miss something because I don't know of any post that has been specificlly bad or taken off because of one gender, race, ethnicity, etc. I am not sure what all the fuss is about. I just haven't seen this. Maybe I am reading the wrong post but it seems this is being made to be more than it is and kind of blown out of proportion. We are all survivors here. Some men think that about women. I just think we can be a little more understanding. I don't think anyone is out to get a particualar gender or race or what have you. Let's just all get along.

You may not have seen it, but I have and more than once. Perhaps you missed it because those postings didn't generalize one of the demographics to which you belong.

Thank you to Possum for standing up and speaking out.

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they are not attacking men for being men

i know they arent, but it feels like it. i dont have a problem with the posts that make that clear. but there are posts where they complain or "attack" men in general. it does make me ashamed of my gender.

Yeah, even if it not meant to be hurtful, it still stings. It is really easy to say it is not a big deal or not meant that way when it isn't your demographic that is the one frequently not to be trusted or is scary.

It feels dismissive and minimizing when I hear that argument. If a male survivor feels like they are being judged or generalized based on their gender, then I believe they are perfectly well entitled to feel hurt and express that hurt without having it minimized.

Edited by jlandrith
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Hi, I have recently been thinking...

Posts have been removed because of racists tones. People saying that people of a certain ethnic group are all the same.

But why are posts allowed to stay up that say "men are all the same"?

These posts are very sexist, especially considering that we have many male members here, who contribute so much and are every bit as strong as the females, if not more.

Our male members have fought hard to overcome the taboo of being sexually abused as a guy. Only to come here and have people think that they are the same as other guys.

I am calling for an end to sexist remarks.

I would not be acceptable for someone to write that they don't trust any (picking a country out of a hat) indian people, because that is who abused them. A post containing that would be removed.

But so many posts group men together as rapists and people who can't control their sexual desires. These seem to slip through the net.

Please be aware that posts grouping men together as abusers is incredibly upsetting, not only to the male members but to the others who have male supporters who are incredible.

And board moderators, would it be possible to have a rule against posting these sexist remarks please?

Thank you,

Possum

I agree wholeheartedly with this. Every time I see a post that suggests all men are basically fighting every day to stifle their natural-born inner rapist, I am SO tempted to hit the report button. Instead, I argue with as much tact as I can muster. I understand how hard it is to see men as safe when all your experience stacks up against them, and that is why we have forums for the separate genders. Women should feel safe venting or struggling with the nature of men versus what happened to us, while men should feel safe just being here, being themselves.

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Hi, I have recently been thinking...

Posts have been removed because of racists tones. People saying that people of a certain ethnic group are all the same.

But why are posts allowed to stay up that say "men are all the same"?

These posts are very sexist, especially considering that we have many male members here, who contribute so much and are every bit as strong as the females, if not more.

Our male members have fought hard to overcome the taboo of being sexually abused as a guy. Only to come here and have people think that they are the same as other guys.

I am calling for an end to sexist remarks.

I would not be acceptable for someone to write that they don't trust any (picking a country out of a hat) indian people, because that is who abused them. A post containing that would be removed.

But so many posts group men together as rapists and people who can't control their sexual desires. These seem to slip through the net.

Please be aware that posts grouping men together as abusers is incredibly upsetting, not only to the male members but to the others who have male supporters who are incredible.

And board moderators, would it be possible to have a rule against posting these sexist remarks please?

Thank you,

Possum

I agree wholeheartedly with this. Every time I see a post that suggests all men are basically fighting every day to stifle their natural-born inner rapist, I am SO tempted to hit the report button. Instead, I argue with as much tact as I can muster. I understand how hard it is to see men as safe when all your experience stacks up against them, and that is why we have forums for the separate genders. Women should feel safe venting or struggling with the nature of men versus what happened to us, while men should feel safe just being here, being themselves.

Just a footnote here

Not only are not all men abusers, not all women are victims. The implication that women in abusive scenarios are survivors by default is not empowering, not a show of solidarity, not validating by any means, especially to those who have been abused by both genders. It is nothing but lazy stereotyping.

Women are abusers as well. Let's not assume that everyone on this site was hurt by a man.

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Just a footnote here

Not only are not all men abusers, not all women are victims. The implication that women in abusive scenarios are survivors by default is not empowering, not a show of solidarity, not validating by any means, especially to those who have been abused by both genders. It is nothing but lazy stereotyping.

Women are abusers as well. Let's not assume that everyone on this site was hurt by a man.

Fair enough footnote. I am in a position where I am able to take that fact for granted, but I suppose not everyone does.

The idea is to quit projecting personal experience onto everyone and try not to generalize. I think it is also handy to just stay on topic. If a thread is about rape culture and how men might justify their abusive actions toward women, I find it kind of rude when someone feels the need to pipe up and say "WELL YOU KNOW NOT ALL MEN ARE RAPISTS AND SOMETIMES WOMEN ARE, SO THERE." Yeah. I know. It's a topic worth discussing on a different thread, which I'd be happy to consider and participate in. There's room for everybody to be validated here without invalidating other people in the process. No one needs to shove.

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Just a footnote here

Not only are not all men abusers, not all women are victims. The implication that women in abusive scenarios are survivors by default is not empowering, not a show of solidarity, not validating by any means, especially to those who have been abused by both genders. It is nothing but lazy stereotyping.

Women are abusers as well. Let's not assume that everyone on this site was hurt by a man.

Fair enough footnote. I am in a position where I am able to take that fact for granted, but I suppose not everyone does.

The idea is to quit projecting personal experience onto everyone and try not to generalize. I think it is also handy to just stay on topic. If a thread is about rape culture and how men might justify their abusive actions toward women, I find it kind of rude when someone feels the need to pipe up and say "WELL YOU KNOW NOT ALL MEN ARE RAPISTS AND SOMETIMES WOMEN ARE, SO THERE." Yeah. I know. It's a topic worth discussing on a different thread, which I'd be happy to consider and participate in. There's room for everybody to be validated here without invalidating other people in the process. No one needs to shove.

I'd hope that people would have enough consideration to understand the context of a thread before making those kinds of remarks, but it does still happen. It's a sensitive issue either way, but there's no reason why each aspect of the topic can't be discussed in its place. If the thread is intended for a general audience, then the issue may be up for debate. If it's narrow in its focus (culture and its relationship to male perps justifiying their activities, for example), then obviously the responses would (or should) be accordingly.

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Just a footnote here

Not only are not all men abusers, not all women are victims. The implication that women in abusive scenarios are survivors by default is not empowering, not a show of solidarity, not validating by any means, especially to those who have been abused by both genders. It is nothing but lazy stereotyping.

Women are abusers as well. Let's not assume that everyone on this site was hurt by a man.

Fair enough footnote. I am in a position where I am able to take that fact for granted, but I suppose not everyone does.

The idea is to quit projecting personal experience onto everyone and try not to generalize. I think it is also handy to just stay on topic. If a thread is about rape culture and how men might justify their abusive actions toward women, I find it kind of rude when someone feels the need to pipe up and say "WELL YOU KNOW NOT ALL MEN ARE RAPISTS AND SOMETIMES WOMEN ARE, SO THERE." Yeah. I know. It's a topic worth discussing on a different thread, which I'd be happy to consider and participate in. There's room for everybody to be validated here without invalidating other people in the process. No one needs to shove.

I'd hope that people would have enough consideration to understand the context of a thread before making those kinds of remarks, but it does still happen. It's a sensitive issue either way, but there's no reason why each aspect of the topic can't be discussed in its place. If the thread is intended for a general audience, then the issue may be up for debate. If it's narrow in its focus (culture and its relationship to male perps justifiying their activities, for example), then obviously the responses would (or should) be accordingly.

Exactly. There is a big difference between "I'm having trouble trusting men again" and "all men are miserable, rapist scumbags." The former is indicative of a survivor working through issues and the latter a hurtful generalization and projection onto all men, including male survivors and secondaries who don't deserve to be called rapists.

If someone is making obvious, hurtful generalizations (not working through issues) and the thread is out in the forum for access by both male and female survivors alike, then the generalizations CAN and SHOULD be refuted. If it is in the Women's Forum, then it is a clear violation of the TOS and a moderator will end up dealing with it.

Hurting is not an excuse to demonize, especially when those being demonized are far outnumbered and a very vulnerable minority in what is supposed to be a safe space for ALL survivors, not just those who are female. Bullying and generalizations are not healthy expressions of pain. If I see it, I'm calling it out or reporting it.

Is anyone gonna seriously sit idly by while a male survivor posts that all women are abusive, manipulative liars who just want to hurt men and other women? Really?! I've witnessed far too much callous and intentional secondary wounding at the hands of female survivors to just pretend it is okay any more. After witnessing a male survivor completely fall apart and recoil from his support network, and seriously consider hurting himself over the hatred he witnessed on another survivor network, I think it is time it is addressed head-on rather than excused or glossed over by those in the majority on survivor sites. It is easy to be cavalier when it is not your demographic being demonized on a constant basis. Does anyone ever wonder why so many men join and then disappear quickly? Or many never leave the discussions in the men's forum? Think about it - hard.

I highly doubt the same tolerance for generalizations would be granted if the genders were reversed.

Edited by jlandrith
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Just a footnote here

Not only are not all men abusers, not all women are victims. The implication that women in abusive scenarios are survivors by default is not empowering, not a show of solidarity, not validating by any means, especially to those who have been abused by both genders. It is nothing but lazy stereotyping.

Women are abusers as well. Let's not assume that everyone on this site was hurt by a man.

Fair enough footnote. I am in a position where I am able to take that fact for granted, but I suppose not everyone does.

The idea is to quit projecting personal experience onto everyone and try not to generalize. I think it is also handy to just stay on topic. If a thread is about rape culture and how men might justify their abusive actions toward women, I find it kind of rude when someone feels the need to pipe up and say "WELL YOU KNOW NOT ALL MEN ARE RAPISTS AND SOMETIMES WOMEN ARE, SO THERE." Yeah. I know. It's a topic worth discussing on a different thread, which I'd be happy to consider and participate in. There's room for everybody to be validated here without invalidating other people in the process. No one needs to shove.

I'd hope that people would have enough consideration to understand the context of a thread before making those kinds of remarks, but it does still happen. It's a sensitive issue either way, but there's no reason why each aspect of the topic can't be discussed in its place. If the thread is intended for a general audience, then the issue may be up for debate. If it's narrow in its focus (culture and its relationship to male perps justifiying their activities, for example), then obviously the responses would (or should) be accordingly.

Exactly. There is a big difference between "I'm having trouble trusting men again" and "all men are miserable, rapist scumbags." The former is indicative of a survivor working through issues and the latter a hurtful generalization and projection onto all men, including male survivors and secondaries who don't deserve to be called rapists.

If someone is making obvious, hurtful generalizations (not working through issues) and the thread is out in the forum for access by both male and female survivors alike, then the generalizations CAN and SHOULD be refuted. If it is in the Women's Forum, then it is a clear violation of the TOS and a moderator will end up dealing with it.

Hurting is not an excuse to demonize, especially when those being demonized are far outnumbered and a very vulnerable minority in what is supposed to be a safe space for ALL survivors, not just those who are female. Bullying and generalizations are not healthy expressions of pain. If I see it, I'm calling it out or reporting it.

Is anyone gonna seriously sit idly by while a male survivor posts that all women are abusive, manipulative liars who just want to hurt women? Really?! I've witnessed far too much callous and intentional secondary wounding at the hands of female survivors to just pretend it is okay any more. After witnessing a male survivor completely fall apart and recoil from his support network, and seriously consider hurting himself over the hatred he witnessed on another survivor network, I think it is time it is addressed head-on rather than excused or glossed over by those in the majority on survivor sites. It is easy to be cavalier when it is not your demographic being demonized on a constant basis. Does anyone ever wonder why so many men join and then disappear quickly? Or many never leave the discussions in the men's forum? Think about it - hard.

I highly doubt the same tolerance for generalizations would be granted if the genders were reversed.

i completely agree with you. well said, very well said. :flowers:

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  • 1 month later...

this is a long thread and i don't have time to read through all the replies, so i'm sorry if this has already been suggested.

i deeply sympathize that these comments can be hurtful to males on the site and they shouldn't have to see that stuff and be triggered by it in a space which is supposed to be safe.

then again, i think it's understandable that some people (both male and female) who were SA'd by males to struggle with these negative views of males. it may inhibit their healing if they have to inhibit expressing these feelings.

so as a compromise, maybe a specific thread in the "aftermath" forum should be reserved for people who feel compelled to vent these types of remarks about males.. then anybody who thinks they might be triggered by such comments would just steer clear of that thread. and on the rest of the forums/threads those remarks would be banned, and posts like that would be moved to the appropriate thread.

perhaps the thread could be called "fear/mistrust of males." it should also be pinned so it doesn't get lost.

on another note... i don't know if comparing the anti-male remarks to racism is an accurate analogy in all cases (depends on what exactly is said). although it's total BS to say that "all men are the same", and this is definately an anti-male statement that is both delusional and offensive, it is reasonable to be more suspicious of males than females, because males commit the vast majority of sexual assault and sexual abuse, and (according to a 1998 scottish research survey) 36% of teen boys and young men said they might rape a woman under certain conditions (i.e. she's his wife, she's a "sl*t", he would get away with it). they also commit 88% of homicides. so statements like "there are tons of awful men out there" or "trusting men is dangerous" or "men are more violent than women" are not really sexist but just a statement about the current reality in our society. it's not an inevitable reality. i don't think males are biologically wired to be more violent than females but are socialized to be more violent. so i love men but i hate masculine gender socialization which teaches men to act like bullies not just to women but to other men. (in fact 2 out of 3 homicide victims are men killed by other men.) so because of the higher rates of male-perpetrated violence towards females and males, i think it's reasonable for people, not just females, to be suspicious and afraid. all of my close male friends have admitted to me that men scare the sh*t out of them. i am actually less scared of men then my boyfriend is, and he's a big dude! i think my other point is that it's not just females who might want to vent about males, but there are also males who want to vent about them.

the source for that statistic about the percent of males willing to rape:

Burton, S , Kitzinger, J. with Kelly, L & Regan, L (1998) Young People's Attitudes Toward Violence Sex and Relationships - Executive Summary, Zero Tolerance Charitable Trust. Accessed 28 Oct 2010

<http://www.zerotolerance.org.uk/upfiles/young%20peoples%20attitude%2085.pdf>

Edited by annieonymous
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