More Developed Secondaries Area

[Nightlight]

I've been talking with some other secondaries and it seems pretty universal that we would really like to have a venting forum just for us. A place where we can kinda just go on a tear without risking offending people or upsetting our respective survivors. I was wondering if the admins would be ok with creating a small secondaries area that is exclusively ours (by masking permissions) where secondaries can support eachother and speak frankly with eachother, or just vent. It could either be moderated by either the current mods or admins or a couple secondaries could be picked to look after it. Either way, I don't think it would be very hard to implement and would be very helpful to us.

A second issue of less import would be the idea of a secondaries only chat section or even just an everybody chat section, whichever is preferred.

Thanks much,

~NL

[Brokn21]

I don't want to offend you or anyone else.Because i dont know what you are like.But therapist and other survivors know what to say to a survivor without them taking it the wrong way.So i dont think we should be in a chat together.But the idea of you all having a chat to yourself is a great idea.Thats my opinion.Please dont be upset.

[Nightlight]

no worries not upset at all. I figure by now any secondaries here know what they should and shouldn't say around survivors. And i still very much wish for survivors to have their own chat area. I just think that secondaries would benefit from having any kinda chat resource.

[CJ]

I think its a good idea, i can imagine things are hard for you guys too, sometimes i worry that my boyfriend has nooneto talk to, might suggest he joins you!!

[fightergirl]

I think his would be a great idea.. My boyfriend joined but has not been on in a while.. I think he is scared to say anything incase I read it.. and I know it must be hard for ye trying to answer without offending people..

[John]

I agree with it being a good idea, I think secondaries, like survivors, have their own set of issues which only other secondaries could understand, so having a dedicated area just for them sounds like a great idea - much like us survivors have our own areas

John

[Nightlight]

I think his would be a great idea.. My boyfriend joined but has not been on in a while.. I think he is scared to say anything incase I read it.. and I know it must be hard for ye trying to answer without offending people..

I think its a good idea, i can imagine things are hard for you guys too, sometimes i worry that my boyfriend has nooneto talk to, might suggest he joins you!!

Yeah, both of them should totally come chill with us. We can toss in an R&S forum and a Venting forum. It'd be grand. Cause we really can't just go out and talk to our friends about it when we need an ear, cause it's not ours to share, but at the same time it can be more than we can deal with alone.

[caseyd4]

Wow Im so glad this has gotten such good responses.

Thanks Nightlight Esp.

[Nightlight]

Wow Im so glad this has gotten such good responses.

Thanks Nightlight Esp.

no worries mate.

Edited April 1, 2009 by Nightlight

[Guest]

Hey folks,

There will not be a separate chatroom or venting place created for secondary survivors. We have a couple of reasons behind reaching this conclusion.

1. We're having a difficult enough time moderating the chatroom we do have. Our recent call for chat mod applications, for example, yielded only about six submissions--and half of those were immediately disqualified because they were under 18 or had been here less than six months. We simply do not have the staff to support another chatroom at this time.

2. The problem with a separate venting section is it runs the risk of quickly turning into an anti-survivor forum. We don't generally allow forums designed with the singular purpose of venting about another group of people, and it runs the risk of detracting from the forum we have already created for secondaries quite some time ago. We believe it's extremely beneficial for both survivors and secondaries to interact together, and more forums will most certainly cut down on that.

3. While we want to honor and respect secondaries, it's important to remember that After Silence is primarily here to service the need of survivors. This is why the chatroom is offered exclusively for them, and the forums secondaries can access are limited. Furthermore, for us to allow venting about survivors would, in fact, be counterproductive to our goal of creating a healthy, supportive environment for survivors of sexual violence.

We know that these decisions may seem unfair for secondaries, but we encourage you all to remember there are many message boards which offer no space at all for them. It is because we do value secondaries we do allow them here, but we cannot let that override our duties to the survivor community as a whole.

[bayler]

When I started to read these posts I had a panic attack. I was very worried about upsetting people so felt I couldn't post what I felt. The post from Ashley-Michele has given me the courage to say that I would not feel safe if there was such a forum. This is my only safe place and I would be thinking all the time about what was being said, would I be blamed, am I guilty for the secondary survivors problems. Everytime I logged on I would see it. I know it's not fair and I feel guilty and I am sorry for feeling this way. Maybe if I was further down the healing line it wouldn't matter but it does. I am so selfish but I couldn't log on here anymore and I don't know where else I could go. I am wondering if maybe the secondary survivors could start their own web site just for themselves. I'm so sorry.

Bayler

[Nightlight]

I find it odd that creating a secondary forum entirely for the same purpose is amenable but having one here isn't. However I did kinda expect this sort of answer.

We'll prolly go setup an IRC room or some such.

In the mean time we'll look after eachother via pm i guess.

I'm really baffled by the us/them mentality. The only thing that distinguishes secondaries here is that the only reason they're here is to provide support. Also for the record i can't see any way that a secondaries section would turn into survivor bashing. If we didn't wanna deal with this kind of thing, or we resented it we just wouldn't be here.

I'm sorry everyone got so fixated on the idea that it would be a big complaining fest. That was not at all the motivation or intent. Was mostly just planned as a way for secondaries to address issues and get advice without causing unnecessary unhappiness.

I guess i'll chat with some of the other secondaries and see if they'd find an IRC room useful or if they'd want to bother with me setting up another forum.

[rainy]

I know the mod has spoken, but I just want to point out that it's a great idea. The more the secondaries have support, the better supportive they can be for their primary.

I was very worried about upsetting people so felt I couldn't post what I felt.

I'm very sorry you felt that way baylor, but that is exactly the way secondaries feel with their fishbowl forums that everyone can see. If they have true distress to express, they can't fully, because they know it will upset survivors. And keeping it in doesn't mean that they are not distressed, -- it does not stop secondaries from being upset -- it merely means they can't express it here and have the support they need. Which means I, as a survivor, have an upset secondary, and I don't have the support I need.

Everytime I logged on I would see it.

Honestly, they can't see most of the forums we can at all. It wouldn't be glaring you in the face. It would just be there for them, where they need it, like ours are.

In any case, I hope my husband (Nightlight) does find another forum to support him.

[Guest]

To Nightlight and other Secondaries,

I encourage you to go back and re-read the post explaining our rationale. I seriously doubt anyone is afraid of secondaries "bashing" survivors. However, as we have seen with the Vent forum we do have, it becomes very easy for boundaries to be eroded rather quickly, and again, AS functions to service the needs of survivors first.

We do understand that secondaries have a lot of emotions and frustrations and need to let that steam about their survivors off--however, it is simply not appropriate to let that steam off here, because we are a board that was designed with survivors in mind. Boards geared towards healing from infidelity, for example, often allow both partners to post, but the cheating partner is rarely allowed to vent about the non-cheating partner because those boards are designed to facilitate healing for the non-cheating partner first. Along this same vein, we simply cannot encourage venting about survivors, especially since so many of our secondaries are involved with survivors who are also members here. Additionally, many of the complaints secondaries have voiced about survivors in the past have contained kernels of victim-blaming, though this is often unintentional.

Furthermore, secondaries are certainly encouraged to establish their own chatroom elsewhere. Even if we didn't have fundamental reasons opposing the creation of a separate chatroom (not to mention a considerable lack of funding for an additional chatroom) we lack the staff necessary to moderate it. As such, allow this to serve as a reminder that whatever happens off of the board is out of our control. What happens in a separately-established chatroom is not within our jurisdiction, and we cannot be expected to mediate any disputes or conflicts that arise from a third-party arrangement.

I'd like to reiterate that we anticipated secondaries would not immediately embrace this decision. Like it or not, this is the "us" versus "them." We need more secondaries like you all, invested in the healing of their partners and loved ones--but as compassionate and supportive as you all may be, you cannot ever fully understand what it means to be a survivor. This is why our efforts in this area are meant to protect them and not ostracize you, which we hope you will come to understand. This is also, believe it or not, done for your safety--we are not equipped to respond to the needs of secondaries beyond what we have already provided because we are not licensed professionals and because we are survivors ourselves. Even for those of us on staff who are also secondaries, our roles as survivors come first--by sheer providence, if nothing else.

You are welcome to post here, to be members and part of the AS community, but if you feel the need to leave, to "find another forum elsewhere," so be it. I personally challenge you to find a community that will rally around secondaries the way we have--I have seen many boards that don't allow secondaries to be members, never mind post at all.

Our responsibility will always be to survivors first. And it is not in the best interst of survivors for this chatroom or sub-forum.